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	<title>Comments for Shrednow</title>
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	<link>http://shrednow.com</link>
	<description>Worldwide Freestyle Community</description>
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		<title>Comment on 2013 The Jammers Freestyle Tournament Day 1 by PK</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2013/05/2013-the-jammers-freestyle-tournament/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator>PK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 May 2013 13:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=2262#comment-1374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for capturing the essence of the event Rodney!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for capturing the essence of the event Rodney!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2013 The Jammers Freestyle Championships Day 2 by Jay</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2013/05/2103-the-jammers-freestyle-championships-day-2/#comment-1367</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 May 2013 16:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=2275#comment-1367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the review Rodney!  Your words are much appreciated.  They lend themselves to almost being there...as I can picture it in my mind.  I look forward to the next post and the next jam!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the review Rodney!  Your words are much appreciated.  They lend themselves to almost being there&#8230;as I can picture it in my mind.  I look forward to the next post and the next jam!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2013 VA States Saturday Night Pool Play &#8211; UPDATED by Eric Wootten</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2013/04/va-states-saturday-night-pool-play/#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Wootten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 21:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=2213#comment-1160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rodney, thank you for the post and commentary on the action.  It&#039;s a great venue and always seems to inspire near flawless play by all the greats.    p.s.  Laszlo thinks the same about you and Bethany.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodney, thank you for the post and commentary on the action.  It&#8217;s a great venue and always seems to inspire near flawless play by all the greats.    p.s.  Laszlo thinks the same about you and Bethany.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2013 VA States Freestyle Finals by John</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2013/04/va-states-freestyle-finals/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 02:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=2223#comment-1141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice recap, Rodney. Freestyle is always a crowd pleaser at VA States and this year was stellar. Daniel and Joey were throwing down some  very difficult moves and making it look easy. Randy, Larry and Bill had some great co-op that is always scary good...But for me, seeing Matt kill it was epic! There seems to be someone each year that is just bullet-proof and shreds it and 2013 was most definitely Matt G&#039;s year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice recap, Rodney. Freestyle is always a crowd pleaser at VA States and this year was stellar. Daniel and Joey were throwing down some  very difficult moves and making it look easy. Randy, Larry and Bill had some great co-op that is always scary good&#8230;But for me, seeing Matt kill it was epic! There seems to be someone each year that is just bullet-proof and shreds it and 2013 was most definitely Matt G&#8217;s year.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2013 VA States Saturday Night Pool Play &#8211; UPDATED by chuck kuske</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2013/04/va-states-saturday-night-pool-play/#comment-1117</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck kuske</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=2213#comment-1117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for posting, Rodney. Wish I could be there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting, Rodney. Wish I could be there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2012 FPA Worlds &#8211; Day 3 Results by Flo</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/2012/08/2012-fpa-worlds-day-3-results/#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Flo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 19:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?p=1673#comment-764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations to all who made the finals..
Mixed Pairs 1st place must be Pavel instead of Tom]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations to all who made the finals..<br />
Mixed Pairs 1st place must be Pavel instead of Tom</p>
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		<title>Comment on 3. Difficulty Multiplier by Lisa</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/3-difficulty-multiplier/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 16:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1209#comment-57</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for working so hard to determine a way to evenly weight the difficulty with other categories. Unless there is a compelling reason to use 1.5 as the multiplier, couldn&#039;t we simply use the multiplier number that makes the categories evenly weighted at 100%, rather than assigning 1.5 as the multiplier? (Judging is automated in spreadsheets now, so the potential errors in multiplication should be less of an issue, if that is a concern.)  Reto&#039;s checkbox idea is interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for working so hard to determine a way to evenly weight the difficulty with other categories. Unless there is a compelling reason to use 1.5 as the multiplier, couldn&#8217;t we simply use the multiplier number that makes the categories evenly weighted at 100%, rather than assigning 1.5 as the multiplier? (Judging is automated in spreadsheets now, so the potential errors in multiplication should be less of an issue, if that is a concern.)  Reto&#8217;s checkbox idea is interesting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 1. Reassembling Artistic Impression (AI) categories by Lisa</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/1-reassembling-artistic-impression-ai-categories/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 16:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1205#comment-38</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would be willing to try this proposed change. However, I agree with 
Arthur and think variety could be more specific and needs a checklist of broad skills so that judges are accountable for the scores. I do not like the use of the word &quot;show&quot; which I think has a negative connotation for players.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be willing to try this proposed change. However, I agree with<br />
Arthur and think variety could be more specific and needs a checklist of broad skills so that judges are accountable for the scores. I do not like the use of the word &#8220;show&#8221; which I think has a negative connotation for players.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5. Bonuses by Lisa</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/5-bonuses/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 15:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1213#comment-81</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I strongly oppose this proposal for the reasons listed above. If there are elements of play that we wish to reward, then they should be included as categories so that judges are accountable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly oppose this proposal for the reasons listed above. If there are elements of play that we wish to reward, then they should be included as categories so that judges are accountable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on FPA Judging Discussion by Manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 22:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1195#comment-15</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your hard work...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your hard work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on 1. Reassembling Artistic Impression (AI) categories by manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/1-reassembling-artistic-impression-ai-categories/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 22:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1205#comment-37</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think for Form is enough 0-5.
Flow (individual and team) could be judge in a full scale 0-10.
Or the judge start to watch how many teamwork a team do or this category can replace a 0-5 of Flow in the old system... so I think Form and Teamwork could make two small category.
Show it&#039;s not what we need, Music Coreography is really important but not if you love or hate the song, think about this category all moments of routines, put down some mark during routine and feel what your eyes hear and what your ears see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for Form is enough 0-5.<br />
Flow (individual and team) could be judge in a full scale 0-10.<br />
Or the judge start to watch how many teamwork a team do or this category can replace a 0-5 of Flow in the old system&#8230; so I think Form and Teamwork could make two small category.<br />
Show it&#8217;s not what we need, Music Coreography is really important but not if you love or hate the song, think about this category all moments of routines, put down some mark during routine and feel what your eyes hear and what your ears see.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5. Bonuses by Manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/5-bonuses/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 21:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1213#comment-80</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[4,5 points of difference is too much, if we tcahink these category are necessary, we can make Variety more easy to be judged. Speed Flow and Creative Style could be a subcategory of Variety (brush, delay clock counter upside down, different throw, different catch can be judge with a scale of 0-6) and 2 little scale 0-2 for speed flow (you did it 1, you did it very well 2, you didn&#039;t 0) and creative style (you are a copy of others players 0, you put some creative stuff 1, you style are unique 2) 
Consecutivity could be judge in a full scale from 0-10 in a difficulty box and divide with others vote]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4,5 points of difference is too much, if we tcahink these category are necessary, we can make Variety more easy to be judged. Speed Flow and Creative Style could be a subcategory of Variety (brush, delay clock counter upside down, different throw, different catch can be judge with a scale of 0-6) and 2 little scale 0-2 for speed flow (you did it 1, you did it very well 2, you didn&#8217;t 0) and creative style (you are a copy of others players 0, you put some creative stuff 1, you style are unique 2)<br />
Consecutivity could be judge in a full scale from 0-10 in a difficulty box and divide with others vote</p>
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		<title>Comment on 4. Execution and Breaks in Flow by Manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/4-execution-and-breaks-in-flow/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 21:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1211#comment-70</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Totally agree with jan...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree with jan&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2. Difficulty &#8211; Blocks or Phrases by Manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/2-difficulty-blocks-or-phrases/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1207#comment-48</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m totally agree with Arthur and Reto, I&#039;ve learn to judge with flexibility and I think everyone can learn it. The only problem is using a full scale but I&#039;ll speak about that in the next one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m totally agree with Arthur and Reto, I&#8217;ve learn to judge with flexibility and I think everyone can learn it. The only problem is using a full scale but I&#8217;ll speak about that in the next one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 3. Difficulty Multiplier by Manu</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/3-difficulty-multiplier/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Manu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1209#comment-56</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This time too I&#039;m agree with Reto, we must use a full scale, it&#039;s not easy, I think to did a lot of mistake, but I think share in box is it a brillant idea...I don&#039;t know if is it possible but maybe that&#039;s the right way. I&#039;ve appreciated your hard work but I think the idea of multipler it&#039;s not a good idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time too I&#8217;m agree with Reto, we must use a full scale, it&#8217;s not easy, I think to did a lot of mistake, but I think share in box is it a brillant idea&#8230;I don&#8217;t know if is it possible but maybe that&#8217;s the right way. I&#8217;ve appreciated your hard work but I think the idea of multipler it&#8217;s not a good idea.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5. Bonuses by Reto</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/5-bonuses/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1213#comment-79</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’m totally against that proposal! And I can keep my comment very short. Reed the comments of Matt, Arthur and Dave Schiller; I totally agree with them. Additionally: It would extend the period till the results are up and I think it’s important to have immediate, public scores.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m totally against that proposal! And I can keep my comment very short. Reed the comments of Matt, Arthur and Dave Schiller; I totally agree with them. Additionally: It would extend the period till the results are up and I think it’s important to have immediate, public scores.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 4. Execution and Breaks in Flow by Reto</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/4-execution-and-breaks-in-flow/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 22:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1211#comment-69</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do have both of this in my proposal (see general comments 1-3). Execution is a part of technic and should be taken care of technical judge .Every 15 sec he puts down a mark for diff and also for execution. The perfect 15 seconds have no deduction, but for any problem, there is a 0.1/0.2/0.3 deduction like we know it. 
Beaks in Flow belong to AI. The perfect routine has no breaks in Flow. Every break should result in a deduction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have both of this in my proposal (see general comments 1-3). Execution is a part of technic and should be taken care of technical judge .Every 15 sec he puts down a mark for diff and also for execution. The perfect 15 seconds have no deduction, but for any problem, there is a 0.1/0.2/0.3 deduction like we know it.<br />
Beaks in Flow belong to AI. The perfect routine has no breaks in Flow. Every break should result in a deduction.</p>
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		<title>Comment on FPA Judging Discussion by Tony Pellicane</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Pellicane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 22:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1195#comment-14</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Outstanding job by the committee and great feedback from all. Good ideas in Peter Laubert&#039;s feedback. In short the directions are good toward simplification and combining the categories and it would be feasible to do. (I also do not think that the multiplier is too burdensome as long as you have some poor soul who&#039;s only purpose in life is to count the moves during the routines, and then feed that number to the judging panel. No way to do it while also judging.-Not really a topic here.) Also enjoyed Arthur&#039;s fine tuning comments. Only strong feedback I have is toward the Bonus idea.

Bonus = Pandora&#039;s Box; an inherently difficult (and herein I believe deleterious) idea though prompted by our collective joy of seeing the big move at the right place.

The inherent difficulty is that it will be next to impossible to fairly administrate a hugely subjective element such as this. Thus Bonus points will be inevitably awarded (by the proposed definitions) across the board resulting in larger point swings based upon greater subjective response than even our current system. (Or with many personalities it will be awarded based upon the similarity to our own styles thus self actualizing.) This will be dependent upon who is judging at any given time. My take is that we currently DO reward the big move and the bonus is not necessary. (I do it in difficulty and AI b/c the big move often has more risk and is efforted toward accent points in music.) - ADDITIONALLY big moves per se are not always all that difficult for the people doing them. They are &#039;trademark&#039; in many cases and this subverts other potential rewards very much deserved by more technically demanding, often AS physically demanding moves; simply because they are more subtle, fluid, etc. and do not conclude with someone (frequently) crashing to the ground. Certainly those of us in the crash move category will be for the bonus as it&#039;s readily interpreted as &#039;big&#039;. Yet I must harken to agree with much of what is being said in regards to expanding our scope of expectations rather than rewarding a narrowing of scope. The bonus idea, although a very, very, fun concept, seems woefully infeasible from the application standpoint and will narrow our scope. Will the bonus reward Matteo&#039;s absolutely flawless spinning phlaud pull set to a phlaud in 2010 FPA semis? ...that was BIG from a flow and continuity standpoint, yet would not be rewarded, or Pat Carrasco&#039;s double spinning osis to end perfectly balanced and holding the pose for presentation while jamming on the sidelines (still relevant as an example though he was not competing). Those are far more compelling acts of athleticism than leaping really high for a catch. I fear that is what the bonus will reward (and I can jump really high when I want to : )  ), and that&#039;s going backwards in my opinion because it narrows our scope of play. Simultaneously we would contend with even larger clouds of subjectivity than we do currently.  -- Fact of the matter is that a Bonus rule is redundant as well as overly subjective and will skew judging b/c we already reward such moves. 

I&#039;m not disinclined to have our sport be different than other sports (no other judged sport has a &#039;bonus&#039; point system??) as that&#039;s a great virtue of our sport and fuels our passion.) Simply don&#039;t think that the current proposed bonus idea is necessary, or can be fairly implemented and/or workable.

Again huge thanks to the committee for their tireless efforts and for  providing a forum for all to lend feedback and stimulate ideas. Fantastic to be a part of this community!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outstanding job by the committee and great feedback from all. Good ideas in Peter Laubert&#8217;s feedback. In short the directions are good toward simplification and combining the categories and it would be feasible to do. (I also do not think that the multiplier is too burdensome as long as you have some poor soul who&#8217;s only purpose in life is to count the moves during the routines, and then feed that number to the judging panel. No way to do it while also judging.-Not really a topic here.) Also enjoyed Arthur&#8217;s fine tuning comments. Only strong feedback I have is toward the Bonus idea.</p>
<p>Bonus = Pandora&#8217;s Box; an inherently difficult (and herein I believe deleterious) idea though prompted by our collective joy of seeing the big move at the right place.</p>
<p>The inherent difficulty is that it will be next to impossible to fairly administrate a hugely subjective element such as this. Thus Bonus points will be inevitably awarded (by the proposed definitions) across the board resulting in larger point swings based upon greater subjective response than even our current system. (Or with many personalities it will be awarded based upon the similarity to our own styles thus self actualizing.) This will be dependent upon who is judging at any given time. My take is that we currently DO reward the big move and the bonus is not necessary. (I do it in difficulty and AI b/c the big move often has more risk and is efforted toward accent points in music.) &#8211; ADDITIONALLY big moves per se are not always all that difficult for the people doing them. They are &#8216;trademark&#8217; in many cases and this subverts other potential rewards very much deserved by more technically demanding, often AS physically demanding moves; simply because they are more subtle, fluid, etc. and do not conclude with someone (frequently) crashing to the ground. Certainly those of us in the crash move category will be for the bonus as it&#8217;s readily interpreted as &#8216;big&#8217;. Yet I must harken to agree with much of what is being said in regards to expanding our scope of expectations rather than rewarding a narrowing of scope. The bonus idea, although a very, very, fun concept, seems woefully infeasible from the application standpoint and will narrow our scope. Will the bonus reward Matteo&#8217;s absolutely flawless spinning phlaud pull set to a phlaud in 2010 FPA semis? &#8230;that was BIG from a flow and continuity standpoint, yet would not be rewarded, or Pat Carrasco&#8217;s double spinning osis to end perfectly balanced and holding the pose for presentation while jamming on the sidelines (still relevant as an example though he was not competing). Those are far more compelling acts of athleticism than leaping really high for a catch. I fear that is what the bonus will reward (and I can jump really high when I want to : )  ), and that&#8217;s going backwards in my opinion because it narrows our scope of play. Simultaneously we would contend with even larger clouds of subjectivity than we do currently.  &#8212; Fact of the matter is that a Bonus rule is redundant as well as overly subjective and will skew judging b/c we already reward such moves. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not disinclined to have our sport be different than other sports (no other judged sport has a &#8216;bonus&#8217; point system??) as that&#8217;s a great virtue of our sport and fuels our passion.) Simply don&#8217;t think that the current proposed bonus idea is necessary, or can be fairly implemented and/or workable.</p>
<p>Again huge thanks to the committee for their tireless efforts and for  providing a forum for all to lend feedback and stimulate ideas. Fantastic to be a part of this community!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 3. Difficulty Multiplier by Reto</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/3-difficulty-multiplier/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 22:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1209#comment-55</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you committee for the great analysis – very professional and helpful!
I don’t like the multiplier because it think it’s important to have immediate and published scores (for us and for the spectators) and I’m afraid that the multiplier will extend the period till the results are up. 
But I agree that diff has too little weight. Both, AI and technic/diff (see my comment 2) should have more or less the same weight. To have the multiplier and immediate scores we need more technical support on the judging tables.
Maybe we could also try to solve the problem with education (diff judges need to use the full range!!!) I agree 100% with Jan Schreck words: “…We need a better judging education of the players!!! Why is there no obligatory judging lesson at the first day of every tournament?...”.
Could it be helpful, if diff judges just had to mark boxes every 15 sec?
Box 1: very easy (meaning the average stuff in those 15 sec. where very easy)
Box 2: easy
Box 3: medium
Box 4: difficult
Box 5: very difficult
Giving 2-4-6-8-10 points for the boxes 1-2-3-4-5. I think I would check box 5 more often than giving a 10 with the current system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you committee for the great analysis – very professional and helpful!<br />
I don’t like the multiplier because it think it’s important to have immediate and published scores (for us and for the spectators) and I’m afraid that the multiplier will extend the period till the results are up.<br />
But I agree that diff has too little weight. Both, AI and technic/diff (see my comment 2) should have more or less the same weight. To have the multiplier and immediate scores we need more technical support on the judging tables.<br />
Maybe we could also try to solve the problem with education (diff judges need to use the full range!!!) I agree 100% with Jan Schreck words: “…We need a better judging education of the players!!! Why is there no obligatory judging lesson at the first day of every tournament?&#8230;”.<br />
Could it be helpful, if diff judges just had to mark boxes every 15 sec?<br />
Box 1: very easy (meaning the average stuff in those 15 sec. where very easy)<br />
Box 2: easy<br />
Box 3: medium<br />
Box 4: difficult<br />
Box 5: very difficult<br />
Giving 2-4-6-8-10 points for the boxes 1-2-3-4-5. I think I would check box 5 more often than giving a 10 with the current system.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2. Difficulty &#8211; Blocks or Phrases by Reto</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/2-difficulty-blocks-or-phrases/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1207#comment-47</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This subject has been discussed so many times and many times too emotional. It’s not that important – both systems can work, the current works pretty good. One argument is incorrect: shorter combos (phrased based judging) don’t have more weight than long once because at the end we are going to divide by the number of marks (combos). One argument is incorrect. Most of us never judged the way that we put the number down quickly after the timemark. Most of us wait for a good timepoint to put the number down. This has allways been encouraged and it works good. So the hybrid approach is therefore not new –we just need to educate the judged to use the system like that. The strongest argument for or against one or the other system, is the one “situations where the disc is not in play (fluff) are not evaluated/scored in terms of difficulty”. This disadvantage of the system with the natural phrases is much stronger than any other (dis)advantage of the two systems that we should stay with the current one (blocks).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This subject has been discussed so many times and many times too emotional. It’s not that important – both systems can work, the current works pretty good. One argument is incorrect: shorter combos (phrased based judging) don’t have more weight than long once because at the end we are going to divide by the number of marks (combos). One argument is incorrect. Most of us never judged the way that we put the number down quickly after the timemark. Most of us wait for a good timepoint to put the number down. This has allways been encouraged and it works good. So the hybrid approach is therefore not new –we just need to educate the judged to use the system like that. The strongest argument for or against one or the other system, is the one “situations where the disc is not in play (fluff) are not evaluated/scored in terms of difficulty”. This disadvantage of the system with the natural phrases is much stronger than any other (dis)advantage of the two systems that we should stay with the current one (blocks).</p>
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		<title>Comment on 1. Reassembling Artistic Impression (AI) categories by Reto</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/1-reassembling-artistic-impression-ai-categories/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1205#comment-36</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Flow:
Individual flow has nothing to do with AI, it&#039;s an element of the difficulty (or the technic; see my general comment 2). If a player plays more fluent he plays more difficult. Difficulty judges are taking care about that, otherwise we have it in two judging categories again.
Teamflow: Teamwork is very important and I wouldn’t overload it with teamflow. I see teamflow more like the “execution of the routine”. If a team get stocked in their routine, it’s a flow-break. The perfect routine has no break and therefore no deduction. Every flow break should give a deduction.
Music Choreography and General Impression: Music choreography is very important and should stay a category. General Impression is the most subjective category and every judge is influenced of his general impression already when he judges the other categories. So it gets way too much weight – let’s drop it completely.
Form: Technicly better players also tend to have a better form because they move smoother. So judging form will do the same thing than judging diff (or technic). We don’t need this category. Unless we want to see ballet like tip toe and dancing. But I don’t think that we want this – we want players who shred in the routine.
Variety: This has always been in wrong place. It should not be a category of AI, it’s a category of technic, together with difficulty. Better players have higher diff and more moves.
Show: I don’t like the word. My understanding of the word “show” is what I did many times to make some money during my studies. You don’t need to play hard, but you can put up a good show for lay spectators, with some nice effects. But for a champion ship I don’t want that. For this reason I think the word “show” is negative – put up a show to cover up your missing playing skills. I totally disagree to give this category 1-20 points. It’s getting much to much weight like that. 
Teamwork: See Arturs comment from June 5th – I agree with everything he wrote about Teamwork]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flow:<br />
Individual flow has nothing to do with AI, it&#8217;s an element of the difficulty (or the technic; see my general comment 2). If a player plays more fluent he plays more difficult. Difficulty judges are taking care about that, otherwise we have it in two judging categories again.<br />
Teamflow: Teamwork is very important and I wouldn’t overload it with teamflow. I see teamflow more like the “execution of the routine”. If a team get stocked in their routine, it’s a flow-break. The perfect routine has no break and therefore no deduction. Every flow break should give a deduction.<br />
Music Choreography and General Impression: Music choreography is very important and should stay a category. General Impression is the most subjective category and every judge is influenced of his general impression already when he judges the other categories. So it gets way too much weight – let’s drop it completely.<br />
Form: Technicly better players also tend to have a better form because they move smoother. So judging form will do the same thing than judging diff (or technic). We don’t need this category. Unless we want to see ballet like tip toe and dancing. But I don’t think that we want this – we want players who shred in the routine.<br />
Variety: This has always been in wrong place. It should not be a category of AI, it’s a category of technic, together with difficulty. Better players have higher diff and more moves.<br />
Show: I don’t like the word. My understanding of the word “show” is what I did many times to make some money during my studies. You don’t need to play hard, but you can put up a good show for lay spectators, with some nice effects. But for a champion ship I don’t want that. For this reason I think the word “show” is negative – put up a show to cover up your missing playing skills. I totally disagree to give this category 1-20 points. It’s getting much to much weight like that.<br />
Teamwork: See Arturs comment from June 5th – I agree with everything he wrote about Teamwork</p>
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		<title>Comment on FPA Judging Discussion by Reto Zimmermann</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto Zimmermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1195#comment-13</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[3
Artistic impression
Freestyle is very technical, but it’s also (almost) an artform. Specially if we compete in teams. If we were just interessted in the technical skills we could have solo-competition (like super pro at Paganello)).
So we need a judging for artistic impression, that only taking care about the routine.
For me the categories for this should be:
Teamwork, Music choreography, „Flow/execution of the routine“ and maybe form
Variety and „individual flow“ are within difficulty (see my comment 2). With individual flow I mean if a player is able to connect elements in his solos or in a coop without flow breaks, see my comment 2).
General impression should not be used anylonger. If I judge AI, my likes and dislikes are allready influencing my judging of all the other subcategories of AI. With the additional subcategory general impression we give the most subjective category much to much weight.
Teamwork: Nothing to change. If we have competition in teams we want the teams to do a lot together. We just need to be carefull not to judge the difficulty of the coops, this is done by technic.
Music choreography: Nothing to change.
Flow/execution of the routine: Beside individual flow (see above or my comment 2) there is the flow of the routine. A good routine has no breaks – it flows. Flow breaks in the routine happen, when a team (or a player of a team) loses track, when they have to talk together to help each other remembering the next move or if they have to correct their placement. Flowbreaks in the routine don’t look good (even spectators can see, that something is not running how it should). It’s the synonym of execution in the technical mark (see my comment 2). The easiest way to judge this will be deductions. For smaler „problems“ minor deductions, for bigger „problems“ bigger deductions. Everytime a judge see a „problem“ (flow-break) in the routine he marks a small or big deduction. At the end he adds up and deduct from the AI interim total to get AI total.
Form
I could live without it. I never really understand the use of form. Technicly better players also tend to have a better form because they move smoother, so we have once again a redundant. And I don’t think that we want ballet like tip toe. So, it will not change a lot if we skip form.
That’s it – AI got much easier but still have the important subcategories to judge.
I think this system puts the important subcategories into the right place and this must be first step for a redesign of judging. The details within the categories and subcategories can be design as a next step.
My comments on the suggestions of the committee will be based on my thoughts in my comment 1-3
(Please excuse my writing mistakes. I&#039;m not that good in writing in english and it&#039;s taking a lot of time to check)
Reto]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3<br />
Artistic impression<br />
Freestyle is very technical, but it’s also (almost) an artform. Specially if we compete in teams. If we were just interessted in the technical skills we could have solo-competition (like super pro at Paganello)).<br />
So we need a judging for artistic impression, that only taking care about the routine.<br />
For me the categories for this should be:<br />
Teamwork, Music choreography, „Flow/execution of the routine“ and maybe form<br />
Variety and „individual flow“ are within difficulty (see my comment 2). With individual flow I mean if a player is able to connect elements in his solos or in a coop without flow breaks, see my comment 2).<br />
General impression should not be used anylonger. If I judge AI, my likes and dislikes are allready influencing my judging of all the other subcategories of AI. With the additional subcategory general impression we give the most subjective category much to much weight.<br />
Teamwork: Nothing to change. If we have competition in teams we want the teams to do a lot together. We just need to be carefull not to judge the difficulty of the coops, this is done by technic.<br />
Music choreography: Nothing to change.<br />
Flow/execution of the routine: Beside individual flow (see above or my comment 2) there is the flow of the routine. A good routine has no breaks – it flows. Flow breaks in the routine happen, when a team (or a player of a team) loses track, when they have to talk together to help each other remembering the next move or if they have to correct their placement. Flowbreaks in the routine don’t look good (even spectators can see, that something is not running how it should). It’s the synonym of execution in the technical mark (see my comment 2). The easiest way to judge this will be deductions. For smaler „problems“ minor deductions, for bigger „problems“ bigger deductions. Everytime a judge see a „problem“ (flow-break) in the routine he marks a small or big deduction. At the end he adds up and deduct from the AI interim total to get AI total.<br />
Form<br />
I could live without it. I never really understand the use of form. Technicly better players also tend to have a better form because they move smoother, so we have once again a redundant. And I don’t think that we want ballet like tip toe. So, it will not change a lot if we skip form.<br />
That’s it – AI got much easier but still have the important subcategories to judge.<br />
I think this system puts the important subcategories into the right place and this must be first step for a redesign of judging. The details within the categories and subcategories can be design as a next step.<br />
My comments on the suggestions of the committee will be based on my thoughts in my comment 1-3<br />
(Please excuse my writing mistakes. I&#8217;m not that good in writing in english and it&#8217;s taking a lot of time to check)<br />
Reto</p>
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		<title>Comment on FPA Judging Discussion by PK</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>PK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1195#comment-12</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good discussion at Jammers....why not focus on education first and foremost.  In regards to changing the system, why not try a simple change or 2 max in a given year and see if it works...change it back if it does not.  Then try some different changes the next year....change it back if it does not.  Evolutionary rather than revolutionary.  I am fearful of a complete overhaul because it will take years to get back to the uneducated state we are in today...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good discussion at Jammers&#8230;.why not focus on education first and foremost.  In regards to changing the system, why not try a simple change or 2 max in a given year and see if it works&#8230;change it back if it does not.  Then try some different changes the next year&#8230;.change it back if it does not.  Evolutionary rather than revolutionary.  I am fearful of a complete overhaul because it will take years to get back to the uneducated state we are in today&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on FPA Judging Discussion by Reto Zimmermann</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Reto Zimmermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1195#comment-11</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[2
Sorry for my double-comment yesterday. I thouht my first comment got lost and so I wrote and posted it again. Some other words, but the same comment after all.
Now I would like to share my ideas to change the judging system. Im presenting a different system than the committee, but if you read the details you will realise, that much of what I’m proposing has also been proposed by the committee. I think I’m going in the same direction as the committee, but in some parts I’m going further. It will be interesting for me to hear, if I’m going too far or if the committee could go further, since I realised, that in some parts the committee were thinking further but holded back to make some proposals, because they thought it will be too much of a change to be accepted.
I started thinking about changing the system a couple month before the committee publised their solution and I created a, what I think, possible solution. I hope the committee will still be opened enough to think about it, even it’s different to their solution. If not, it was still worth for me to write everything down.
My thoughts started with questions about the goals of judging. For me, the only goal of the judging system is that it makes the best team winning. 
The best team ist the team that shows the best performance in the competition. 
The best performance ist the one with the highest total of the skills technic and artistic impression.
Technic:
The technical skills are diffculty, execution and variety:
Difficulty is very important if we want to answer the question «who is the best player?». The better player is able to play higher diff. Higher diff means more restrictions and also more flow. Three moves played with a controll-delay in beween each, are less difficult than the same three moves played fluently. Good judged see the flow easily if they judge diff. So it should be part of difficulty, without beeing a redundant own subcategory. 
But diff is not the only criteria to determine the best player. Better players also have bigger variety, than weaker players. And they execute their moves properly. This is the biggest difference between my solution of a new system and the system discussed so far. Difficulty alone is not enough to determine the best players, or the best technic of players. We also need variation (more different moves) and execution. We do have both you might say. Yes, I answer, but in the wrong place. Variety is within AI, although it has nothing to do with AI. Execution is a categoriy itselve, judged by someone else, although it belongs to the technic. Problems we are facing with that are well known. The diff judges and the execution judges are taking care of the same, without knowing how the other ones judge the situation. This must be done by one judge (category) to avoid redundance. This means the technical judges would give difficulty points (I leave it open if on timeblocks or phrases, not that important I think) and make marks about the execution during the routine. At the end of the routine the diff-points will be added and the total of the execution points will be substracted from the total of the diff-points, giving a first total about the technic.
So I wouldn’t drop execution, but I wouldn’t have execution as a own category anylonger, because it has all to do with the technic. Like this the same judge can decide if he wants to give the diff for a catch, (because the disc drop out of the hand) or not (because the disc was way off and uncatchable).  With every diff mark the judge also put down a execution mark. For perfect playing a zero (meaning no deduction), for little uncleannesses a 0.1, for middle problems a 0.2, and for big problems like drops but also for rescues with (Ultimate)dives (since this looks really ugly in a performing sport) a 0.3. 
Example1: Disc skips out of hand at the catch after a solo, player is able to pick up the disc very quickly and continue playing without any delay: I would give all the diffpoints because everything was (almost) completed and would make a 0.1 deduction because execution was not perfect at the end. Example 2: big set for a tripple spinning gitis, disc way of, no chance to make the catch and player is loosing his balance and he is falling on his bud: I would give no diff-points for the  move and I would make a 0.3 deduction because this was very poorly executed.
About this I’m very convinced. I’m also convinced in having variation within technic. But I don’t have a good solution yet to make it handable for the judge to do this additionaly to diff and ex. A lot could be done also with the design of the judging sheet. Today we get no help from the sheet-designs at all, there are just empty boxes. But design of judging sheet could help a lot. 
So, my thoughts about the details of that system are not finished, but I think the system would be good and we could find ways to fix the details.
Artistic impression in my next comment
Reto]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2<br />
Sorry for my double-comment yesterday. I thouht my first comment got lost and so I wrote and posted it again. Some other words, but the same comment after all.<br />
Now I would like to share my ideas to change the judging system. Im presenting a different system than the committee, but if you read the details you will realise, that much of what I’m proposing has also been proposed by the committee. I think I’m going in the same direction as the committee, but in some parts I’m going further. It will be interesting for me to hear, if I’m going too far or if the committee could go further, since I realised, that in some parts the committee were thinking further but holded back to make some proposals, because they thought it will be too much of a change to be accepted.<br />
I started thinking about changing the system a couple month before the committee publised their solution and I created a, what I think, possible solution. I hope the committee will still be opened enough to think about it, even it’s different to their solution. If not, it was still worth for me to write everything down.<br />
My thoughts started with questions about the goals of judging. For me, the only goal of the judging system is that it makes the best team winning.<br />
The best team ist the team that shows the best performance in the competition.<br />
The best performance ist the one with the highest total of the skills technic and artistic impression.<br />
Technic:<br />
The technical skills are diffculty, execution and variety:<br />
Difficulty is very important if we want to answer the question «who is the best player?». The better player is able to play higher diff. Higher diff means more restrictions and also more flow. Three moves played with a controll-delay in beween each, are less difficult than the same three moves played fluently. Good judged see the flow easily if they judge diff. So it should be part of difficulty, without beeing a redundant own subcategory.<br />
But diff is not the only criteria to determine the best player. Better players also have bigger variety, than weaker players. And they execute their moves properly. This is the biggest difference between my solution of a new system and the system discussed so far. Difficulty alone is not enough to determine the best players, or the best technic of players. We also need variation (more different moves) and execution. We do have both you might say. Yes, I answer, but in the wrong place. Variety is within AI, although it has nothing to do with AI. Execution is a categoriy itselve, judged by someone else, although it belongs to the technic. Problems we are facing with that are well known. The diff judges and the execution judges are taking care of the same, without knowing how the other ones judge the situation. This must be done by one judge (category) to avoid redundance. This means the technical judges would give difficulty points (I leave it open if on timeblocks or phrases, not that important I think) and make marks about the execution during the routine. At the end of the routine the diff-points will be added and the total of the execution points will be substracted from the total of the diff-points, giving a first total about the technic.<br />
So I wouldn’t drop execution, but I wouldn’t have execution as a own category anylonger, because it has all to do with the technic. Like this the same judge can decide if he wants to give the diff for a catch, (because the disc drop out of the hand) or not (because the disc was way off and uncatchable).  With every diff mark the judge also put down a execution mark. For perfect playing a zero (meaning no deduction), for little uncleannesses a 0.1, for middle problems a 0.2, and for big problems like drops but also for rescues with (Ultimate)dives (since this looks really ugly in a performing sport) a 0.3.<br />
Example1: Disc skips out of hand at the catch after a solo, player is able to pick up the disc very quickly and continue playing without any delay: I would give all the diffpoints because everything was (almost) completed and would make a 0.1 deduction because execution was not perfect at the end. Example 2: big set for a tripple spinning gitis, disc way of, no chance to make the catch and player is loosing his balance and he is falling on his bud: I would give no diff-points for the  move and I would make a 0.3 deduction because this was very poorly executed.<br />
About this I’m very convinced. I’m also convinced in having variation within technic. But I don’t have a good solution yet to make it handable for the judge to do this additionaly to diff and ex. A lot could be done also with the design of the judging sheet. Today we get no help from the sheet-designs at all, there are just empty boxes. But design of judging sheet could help a lot.<br />
So, my thoughts about the details of that system are not finished, but I think the system would be good and we could find ways to fix the details.<br />
Artistic impression in my next comment<br />
Reto</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5. Bonuses by Arthur</title>
		<link>http://shrednow.com/judging/5-bonuses/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 04:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shrednow.com/?page_id=1213#comment-78</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I oppose the bonus proposal strongly. I&#039;ve commented briefly on it before in response to Matt&#039;s thoughts. Some more feedback:

Judging of performances is intended to reward excellence. These bonuses seem to be intended to sometimes reward excellence and sometimes reward things the committee wants to see. 

This proposal neither makes judging more fair nor makes judging less demanding. It decreases accountability and adds 1 thing each judge needs to track.

Let&#039;s not kid ourselves that judges will give less than 0.5 points each. The full 4.5 points will be in play during each round. Rather than creating more accountability in the system, it creates purely subjective swings in point totals. Let&#039;s also not kid ourselves that judges won&#039;t discuss the bonus points or look to their fellow judges&#039; sheets for insight on who to give bonuses to. Need for validation is a strong force.

&lt;b&gt;Speed Flow elements&lt;/b&gt;: this is promotion of a specific style of play, not a measure of excellence. If the committee has decided that routines should have speed flow, they should say that clearly. From my perspective, there is no consensus that speed flow should be a component of all freestyle routines. Instead, there is a respect for the craft of speed flow and a desire that well-performed speed flow be rewarded in a way judges aren&#039;t seeing right now. 

&lt;b&gt;Unique/creative style of play&lt;/b&gt;: This is already covered in AI, especially if Show has 40% of the AI mark. It&#039;s piling extra points onto something that&#039;s already rewarded more than technical proficiency.

&lt;b&gt;Consecutivity&lt;/b&gt;: I&#039;m biased toward rewarding this with an infinite number of points because this actually is a measure of excellence. That said, I don&#039;t think it should receive extra gifts of points. I believe better ways exist to reward teams playing technically superior delay and brush freestyle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I oppose the bonus proposal strongly. I&#8217;ve commented briefly on it before in response to Matt&#8217;s thoughts. Some more feedback:</p>
<p>Judging of performances is intended to reward excellence. These bonuses seem to be intended to sometimes reward excellence and sometimes reward things the committee wants to see. </p>
<p>This proposal neither makes judging more fair nor makes judging less demanding. It decreases accountability and adds 1 thing each judge needs to track.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not kid ourselves that judges will give less than 0.5 points each. The full 4.5 points will be in play during each round. Rather than creating more accountability in the system, it creates purely subjective swings in point totals. Let&#8217;s also not kid ourselves that judges won&#8217;t discuss the bonus points or look to their fellow judges&#8217; sheets for insight on who to give bonuses to. Need for validation is a strong force.</p>
<p><b>Speed Flow elements</b>: this is promotion of a specific style of play, not a measure of excellence. If the committee has decided that routines should have speed flow, they should say that clearly. From my perspective, there is no consensus that speed flow should be a component of all freestyle routines. Instead, there is a respect for the craft of speed flow and a desire that well-performed speed flow be rewarded in a way judges aren&#8217;t seeing right now. </p>
<p><b>Unique/creative style of play</b>: This is already covered in AI, especially if Show has 40% of the AI mark. It&#8217;s piling extra points onto something that&#8217;s already rewarded more than technical proficiency.</p>
<p><b>Consecutivity</b>: I&#8217;m biased toward rewarding this with an infinite number of points because this actually is a measure of excellence. That said, I don&#8217;t think it should receive extra gifts of points. I believe better ways exist to reward teams playing technically superior delay and brush freestyle.</p>
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